Interviewer: Good morning Professor Odhiambo. Thank you for taking the time to share some of your thoughts with us. I have a series of questions, which I plan to ask you concerning RANDFORUM. I would like for you to keep in mind there are a number of African American scientists and engineers who will see our interview. They have expressed interest in establishing links with African scientists and engineers and hope to gain some insight in how they can do this. They are members of professional African American engineering and science associations.  Before we talk about your responsibilities as Director of RANDFORUM, tell us a little about where you grew up, your background and. your work experience.

Dr. Odhiamabo: Well, let me start with my work experience. Over the last two years I have been very concerned with developing a new paradigm for African development. Hence, the issue of science led development in Africa. But before that, for about 25 years, I founded and managed the International Center for Insect Physiology and Ecology in Nairobi which is the first high level research institution started by a private group of people in Africa-run by them and undertaking a very high level  research to solve Africa’s own problems within this at a very high level. Indeed over the last ten years of my directorship of this institution based in Nairobi, Kenya, we have trained 150 Ph.D.’s from all over Africa. And one of the interesting points is that all of those 150 Ph.D.’s are still working in Africa. There has not been any brain drain from either the science of insect physiology and ecology or Africa itself .  Prior to being director of this institute, EICT, I was also Professor of Insect Physiology at the University of Nairobi where I actually founded the Department of Entomology in 1970 and also founded also founded the Department of Agriculture in 1989. I was trained basically at Makere University in Uganda. I then worked in Kenya in key research. Later on in Uganda, in insect ecology and taxonomy. And then, I went over to the University of Cambridge where I undertook my further training ending with my PhD in physiology.

Interviewer: Dr. Odhiambo, please give us a brief history of RANDFORUM, and why it was formed, and your role as director.

Dr. Odhiambo: In November, 1988, EICT my old institute together with the African Academy of Science of which I am President from its beginning, and also the Third World Academy of Sciences where I am Vice President again and co-founder, sponsored a conference of 70 scientists, policy people, government officials, as well as, Heads of States including General Obasanjo of Nigeria.  And the main agenda for that conference- Africa is undergoing a crisis. Most of the models for development did not work. . What should we do as a people of concern not necessarily running government, so forth? Previous to that conference being held, we contracted a young Nigerian scientist, also a policy specialist to go around the continent, and prepare a full pledge report on the depth and range of the crisis, as well as. the possibilities of solving those problems and the models that we could adopt to solve those problems.

So the agenda for the conference we prepared was really the document. And we spent 4 days assessing the publication that had been prepared. And came to concrete conclusions. We did come to very concrete conclusions. One of which was that we were not simply going to publish those conclusions, we did within a month, but would also ensure that they were implemented. So, we created a continuing mechanism, which was co-chaired by General Obasanjo as the Operational leader and Professor Lydia Mokubu of Swaziland, a chemist and by that time Vice Chancellor of the University of Swaziland. These two together with their team of about 8 people carried on the recommendations, propagating them and at the same time refining how we should proceed. The end of that results was mechanism- the creation of RANDFORUM, September 1992. When it became obvious we were on the threshold of practical implementations of those recommendations, RANDFORUM took over and immediately concretized those recommendations into four programs. The first program, we needed -we started a perpetual fund within for carrying out the work we had in mind. That became the African Foundation for Research, AFRAND, which was chartered in Mobutu, Mozambique in July, 1994, and I was appointed the Director of AFRAND this year.

The second program dealt with the question of enterprise development. We interpreted that in different ways. One of the interpretations was just put into effect -putting together a think tank, what we are calling Round Table of Technology Oriented Entrepreneurs. That was created and inaugurated in Kampala, Uganda, July 1995 with a steering committee already actually working. In the next few years, we are hoping that it is going to be a very major link between the research and development community and the productive sector in Africa and elsewhere.

The third program deals with the very large issue of brain drain, as well as, the also more political aspects of mobilizing of African brainpower in science and technology, entrepreneurship also in business and industrial management. The taskforce for that program was led by former President, Kenneth Kunda of Zambia.   It produces its report this July and that report has now been accepted. I will come back to that issue a little later. That report basically recommended RANDFORUM through AFRAND should now mobilize the brain power within the continent which are in distressed countries and cannot function such as Liberia, Rowanda, Burundi, Somalia. So that instead of their being there - simply surviving in refugee camps, and therefore non productive; to bring them into another country where they be productive until they can go home.

Secondly, we want to bring in expatriates- Africans who have left the continent in the last few decades. We think there are probably, of the professional ones, in the region of 100,000 all over the world. We want for them also to be involved in Africa’s development by channeling their gifts, talents, skills without necessarily asking them to change their citizenship wherever they are. And thirdly, to bring into focus the incredible amount and range of skills among the diasporan Africans world-wide again for Africa’s development without requiring that they acquire new citizenship within the African continent. So, that program is on the threshold of being implemented. We now have the recommendations we wish to discuss with all the groups, expatriates as well as, the diasporans groups around the world -how we can better integrate our activities so that we make African a great continent once again.

The fourth program we have deals with the issue of re-integrating science and technology into African culture after 500 years of being, left out through the issue of slave trade, then colonial subjugation- science and technology has been separated from the rest of African activities. And it is our wish to see it re-integrate with African culture and at the same time strengthen African culture because we believe that once Africa has material well being well, we will be on the way. An issue, which focuses on the rest of the world, is a better living because of a better framework of spiritual life, ethnical life, and moral life. We do not wish to leave that out in this technology era.

Now, I want to say something about AFRAND. What AFRAND is trying to do is to translate new technologies, new processes, and new social services that answer directly to Africa’s problems. That the main goal of AFRAND is to be a major organization that began November, 1988 as a gathering of concerned people, then was translated into RANDFORUM, a non profit trust to deal with think tanks functions. And then we laid the way for four programs. So AFRAND will be the fund, a perpetual fund, an endowment which will enable Africa to have a measure of independence which it has not enjoyed for 500 years.

Interviewer: Professor Odhiambo, in July of this year, the Round Table Oriented Entrepreneurs was held just ahead of the Third Presidential Forum for the Management of Science and Technology for the development of Africa. Will you share some of the highlights of these events?

Dr. Odhiambo: Let me explain the significance of the Presidential Forum for the Management of Science and Technology in African. The Presidential Forum was created in 19- one of the first acts of RANDFORUM was to first create the Presidential Forum as a means for creating an enabling environment; enabling geopolitical and economic environment so that the new paradigm of science led development strategies can take root. And in effect what that has done over the last three years is form government Heads of State in Africa who know the importance of science to actually to develop how that approach can be made a viable approach, a productive approach, an vital approach for Africa in this technology dominated world.

The first meeting of the Presidential Forum was held in Botswana under the leadership of President Masire. He acted as Chairman of the Presidential Forum until that following year in 1994 when he handed over the leadership to President Chisano of Mozambique where the second Presidential Forum was held, and this year in July, President Chisano handed over the leadership to President Museveni of Uganda who is presently Chairman until next year. We will expect to meet in Dakar, Senegal and President Dioup will the take over the Chairmanship at that time.

The most interesting outcomes of these meetings is that first of all we have put for each meeting only 2-3 major issues. And we then have reported on the progress of implementation on the decisions made in the previous meeting.

For example this year, in Kampala- the issue was What we do about brain drain; and President Kunda reported on the results of the Taskforce that he had been leading for two years to report to say these are the mechanisms we wish to seek implemented. He noted that first of all, we need to have an inventory of all the key people outside of Africa whether expatriates or whether they are diasporan people who can provide an important input in African’s development. And so the idea is not to simply have a list and address, but a profile of the person. We will also be having a similar profile of persons within Africa of every scientists in every country so that potentially if there is any problem and a country comes under distress, we can verify who has to be taken out to be sure he is still productive in another environment. We will be doing the same with institutions and organizations.and corporations that are likely to be involved in research and this type of effort. So that inventory, we are now designing it. It will probably take us several years to have even the first comprehensive inventory. It is something we want to work on immediately.

The second one is to create institutions, a network of institutions, which can be temporary homes for people who want to return to Africa, on a continuing basis. We hope to network throughout the continent from Morocco and Egypt all the way to Cape Coast in South Africa. We hope networks of institutions and corporations will be a key element, not only in pushing Africa forward in science lead development, but also to begin to integrate Africa in a functional way.

And the third one, we hope to create next year a major consultancy effort enterprise which will involve a large number of people from time to time, but will also have a small core group which will deal with specific issues. Some of the issues we expect--. It will deal with things like: how to deal with conflict resolution in Africa, how to deal with infrastructure problems in Africa, how to deal with communications including telecommunications, electronic communications and so on. In others words it will select a few major areas where there is a need for a continental approach or regional approach rather than simply a state or national approach. It will deal with those issues on a long-term basis for the benefit for the whole of Africa.

Now, so that was one type of issue that came up and the Heads of States said we like this very much. Come back next year and tell us how you have begun to implement it.

The second issue, which came up which, was a surprise issue. We had been working for three years. We had been wondering how strategically, how Africa could get into the modern industrial manufacturing business. Now, we came back to the Head of States with a specific proposal--that we would like Africa to get right now into biotechnology, Biotechnology for medical, biotechnology for agriculture and biotechnology for environmental management - these three areas. Probably, biotechnology for medicine we are a little ahead. Why, because traditionally Africans are fairly close to practical types of biotechnology. So that moving into the more genetic engineering biotechnology in not a major step. It is an important step, but we can make that step. We can fill that gap quite quickly. So we are hoping that within this decade that Africa will be able to make a major move. We were completely surprised. We have been talking at length- certainly we want you to give us a practical plan how we should start, and we want you to come back with details, and consider opinions how African should deal with the issue of property rights and how to deliver biotechnology and the traditional knowledge basis. Africa has been already intimidated over these matters for centuries --over issues like biological diversity for example or some technologies that are translated to new technologies in the field of biotechnology. And we related this to the beginning of incubators and technology parks in Africa. That was really something that we would not have brought up. And it surprised us more even though we had worked on the committee for three years because we felt that it would be a very difficult concept to accept. But the Presidential Forum did accept it. That gives you an example. The other reports we then gave on the progress on how AFRAND was being operationalized. We were able to report that the Headquarters has now been selected on a competitive basis, and that it will be in Nalonque, Malawi. It will begin working in Nalonque, Malawi after concluding an agreement with the government of Malawi, which is being trained now. And it is our expectation that early next year the AFRAND headquarters will be in Malawi.

We were then able to report on the institution and inauguration of the technology of entrepreneurs and also to forecast that next year, we expect to inaugurate a Round Table of capacity building leaders. So these meeting have become a very major calendar in Africa’s development.

Interviewer: Professor Odhiambo, there are very many African American scientists and engineers who have a strong desire o assist RANDFORUM’s mission, they are eager to hear about opportunities. What are some of those opportunities, and is their assistance encouraged? How should they prepare themselves to establish technical links? How can they get involved?

Dr. Odhiambo: We have started some serious discussions with a number of groups, expatriates groups of Africans in North America, as well as, with diasporan groups Perhaps the latter category is the Constituency for African in led by Melvin Foote in Washington, DC. Now, that the Head of States have agreed that we should go ahead with our major program, mobilizing African brainpower world wide, I believe, that now there are opportunities for us to start operating in a systematic manner. One of the major efforts we expect to undertake within the next few weeks is to be able to identify our representatives around the world. We will be starting most likely with the Americas and Europe. We hope to have what we are calling metropolitan representatives who will be our focal point in channeling information to us and to well-wishers. In fact, that method could be very important capability. We want to make sure that anybody who have got a skill or will to join in hands with Africa in the development manufacturing or marketing enterprise that they can have that chance.

And we have to learn from our colleagues who have done a similar effort in other areas. The ethnic Chinese helping China; the ethnic Turks helping Turkey; the ethnic Indians helping India; ethnic Jews helping Israel, and so forth. We are learning from them, and our hope is that we have very strong representation throughout the world of people who are committed to assist to us. We will be visiting them very regularly. We will be having Round Tables, meetings, and sessions. We hope to have newspapers, and of course we will be having think tank papers which will indicate what is required. Let me say, some of the things that are uppermost in our minds. I have already indicated that we would like to get into biotechnology fairly rapidly. So, one can say immediately that biotechnology is a very important area. We are very concern about telecommunications, and networking in Africa. Transport is a major problem in Africa, but we can overcome some of the disadvantages of the difficulties with a better network system.

So the Internet is important to for us. In talking about Internet, our concern is to be sure that Africa is networked throughout the continent and that network is networked with the rest of the world. We would not like to see a condition where there is yet another channel for getting into Africa separately as has happened to so many times over the last 100 years. We want to make assure that each time there is connection the whole of Africa is wired in. We have had preliminary discussions about Internet, and we hope that this can be enhanced and actually be expedited, and Africa, Africa and North America and else where in the world is connected. So that is a very important priority for us.

The third priority is food and nutrition security. Indeed, one of the discussions that were held in Kampala was a decision that before the year 2005 that Africa must achieve a basic food and nutrition security, and that means we have a working group constantly working with that issue.

We will be having a meeting of that group in Nairobi from 13-17 December when we also will be having a food processing technology expedition, and workshops, which will include the whole of Africa. Representatives from East African countries, innovators from within Africa in those areas, as well as, policy and entrepreneurs and Round Table sharing groups at the same time. So, that is a major concourse for those interested in the business of food technology. But, I know there is going to be other priorities. Indeed an imagined priority, which is coming up next year, is the whole issue of tertiary education. Indeed one of the things that I have been doing while I am in Chicago is to discuss how we can bring a new paradigm into tertiary education in Africa in a pilot scheme probably linking it to three things. Linking it to high research, excellent research, relevant research, and secondly linking it to post graduate education, and thirdly linking it to social service and also to the private sector.

This research university system will be a major item within the next year. We are not thinking of very large universities but boutique universities highly specialized dealing with only a narrow area. For example, tropical medicine, since tropical medicine in Africa is a major issue, but it is not taught well in Africa. Indeed, most tropical medical specialists in Africa are trained in Europe not in Africa. We want to bring that back here to Africa. So, that is the type of boutique university approach we will be having. As I say this is a major issue. And lastly, there is still the issue next year, where we need help- is the whole question of re-integration of science and technology into African scientific culture and African culture itself. We are thinking very much of the pre-school age children and the household area.

Interviewer: What about African American women scientists and engineers are they encouraged to get involved, and also what about the youth?

Dr. Odhiambo: We would like to see very much the engineer and technologists in North America being involved in what we are trying to do. One of the issues I indicated before that is very much in our minds is the whole infrastructure of Africa. Infrastructure in terms of roads. We have now the paved Tukaiyo Road, Across Africa Road. Even a network of roads across in not good enough. The railway system is not good enough. In fact it is very fragmented. We have the whole problem of deep seaports. Almost all of our commodities that leave the continent or come to the continent come with ships which are not over African authority. One thing we want is to change that gradually over time is Africa has shipping lines, and that African has a large number of seaports which than become the focal point for trade. We are very concerned about our airports. Almost all of our airlines run from North to South. The roads run from east to west. We want to change that. The whole issue of telecommunications, as I said before, is very much in our minds so infrastructure as a whole. The development of new city plans which will ensure that we do not have rotten inner cities, inner areas of our cities; so that we do not go on too high restrictions on how to build; bringing new building materials so that most people will own a dwelling. All of these are major issues where we think your engineers and women of North America can be very much involved.

Now, probably it is not known well that about 40-50% of Africa’s population consists of youth below 15 years. We are really rich—a wealth of youth which we need to engage in a productive way. What we need to sort out at this time what sort of skills should they know, should they have, before they go to school. For example; before a child goes to school at year six and during holidays, and while he is still staying at home until age twelve when likely he will be going to boarding school; how should he be trained?

Now, we have lost a very major resource that Africa has had until about 1960. That is our grandparents in our extended family were a major resource for training. Not training in the technical sense, training for living, natural history, traditional knowledge; knowledge of the family and the clan; knowledge of how to survive on your own and so forth; of how to behave in society as a man or as a woman, how to behave within a family. We have lost that, and the school system does not take that in. And one thing we would like to see that is a foster system. That we recreate not necessarily the old grandmother system, but one that enables us to get these lessons on living which the school system cannot give.

Secondly, the African family is still strong. Whatever problems we see in certain urban areas like Soweto, like Lagos, and so forth, the family is still very strong, in Africa. We would not like to see it atomized like the North American system to the level where the individual is supreme. We thin there has to be a balance between community, obligations, and individual rights. That is a major problem that we have to cogitate about; and we have to think about it and deliver about it; and agree as family members, women, and children and so forth.

Thirdly, I want to say what I said at the very beginning. We are very concerned about removing poverty from Africa. Although our concern is removing the worse aspects of poverty, we would like to see a new African vision that has at least two dimensions. The vision should be that we should not be poor economically, that we should have autonomy of vision, autonomy strategies. That Africa has a place in the sun. So, that is the material part of it.

But, we need the second dimension of psychic, ethical responsibility, moral obligations. Obligations to the community and to the society we need that part of it to capture. It is not a matter usually discussed in this age. But, in Africa it must be discussed, and Africa must be different from other societies.

Interviewer: I know that there are many African American scientists and engineers out there who are listening. Is there a special-- is there any special advise or message you would like to leave with them.

Dr. Odhiambo: I would like to say this. The concern that Africa brainpower world-wide should be mobilized is very real. It is something that we should be taking decisions about. We take our responsibility. We in Africa want to make sure that those who contribute are honored so that their children and their progeny will know that their forefathers did contribute to African development. We are proud of our heritage when we look back 5000 years ago among the Shibu, among the Egyptians, among those who followed the Egyptians, the Assumites, Songai Empire. We know we had a tradition, the tradition of culture, traditional development. We had wealth. That wealth has been interrupted for 500 years. But, because we have been there before, we must know we can be there again, and it is our purpose that we shall be there again.

Interviewer: Professor Odhiambo, thank you for your time.